焦点访谈:天安门“1·23”自焚事件追踪报道(一)(中英对照)

时间:2007年11月23日 14:00
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  主持人:一年前由法轮功邪教组织制造的天安门广场的自焚事件,举世震惊。而法轮功的精神控制,杀人害命的邪教本质也昭然若揭。一年过去了,这些参与了天安门广场自焚事件的人,目前的情况怎么样,记者最近再一次采访了他们。

    一年前,到天安门广场自焚的一共七个人。他们是来自河南省开封市的王进东、刘云芳、刘葆荣,以及郝惠君和陈果母女,刘春玲和刘思影母女。这七人中,刘春玲因自焚当场死亡。她的女儿刘思影,因烧伤引起病变,经抢救无效死亡,死时正12岁。王进东、郝惠君、陈果,被烧成重伤。刘云芳、刘葆荣在准备自焚时,被当场抓获。天安门自焚事件造成两人死亡,三人重伤。

    2001年5月30日,北京市人民检查院第一分院对组织、策划、煽动、帮助这些法轮功人员到天安门自焚的人,像北京市第一中级人民法院提起公诉。法院于7月19日开庭,经法庭认定,刘云芳、王进东、薛慧君被判有罪。刘葆荣犯罪情节轻微,被依法免于刑事处罚。

    在天安门自焚事件中,被烧成重伤的郝慧君和陈果母女,经医院的及时抢救,安全地渡过了烧伤的危险期,目前还在医院进行康复治疗。记者来到医院时,陈果的四姨崔莉正好来看望她们。

    记者看到了中央音乐学院学生陈果。

    陈果:四姨,你来了。

    崔莉:嗯,我来了。

    记者看到崔莉给陈果带来几本书和杂志。

    记者:陈果,你喜欢看这些书吗?

    陈果:喜欢。

    记者:能看吗?

    陈果:可以,但不能看时间太长,眼睛很累。

    记者:一次能看多久?

    陈果:看,最多十分钟。

    目前郝惠君和陈果母女,已经完全丧失了生活自理能力,需要24小时的护理。

    记者:平时都做些什么呢?

    陈果:平时,每天护士长为我做理疗,就是膝盖关节那些疤痕软化。然后,陪护阿姨陪我们散散步什么的,陪我们看看电视,读读报。

    记者采访医护人员崔巍:病情现在基本稳定,现在治疗就着重是伤口治疗。通过伤口换药,使伤口尽快愈合。再一个治疗重点,就是关节的功能康复。

    郝惠君的情况比陈果差一些。她有一只眼睛已经失明。

    记者:你记忆当中陈果的样子,是什么样子啊?

    郝惠君:她非常漂亮,她非常漂亮。

    在母亲的记忆中,女儿仍然是那么漂亮。

    记者:你能看见你妈妈吗?

    陈果:我能,这个眼睛还行。

    记者:就这个眼睛还能看得见?

    陈果:嗯。

    记者:看到你妈妈的样子,你难受不难受?

    陈果:习惯了。反正烧伤了,肯定不像以前那个样子了,总要有些变化。看了,慢慢地就习惯了。

    记者:习惯了?

    陈果:我觉得她特别像大木偶。

    记者:像什么?

    陈果:大木偶。

    记者:像你看的动画片里面的那个?

    陈果:对,所以我管她叫“大木偶”。

    记者:你管妈妈叫“大木偶”?

    陈果:嗯。

    记者:你妈妈答应吗?

    陈果:答应。

    记者:妈妈也答应。妈妈管你叫什么呢?

    陈果:我叫她“大木偶”,她就叫我“小木偶”。

    崔莉在她的亲人面前,总是面带微笑。但是离开了亲人,心里就充满了悲伤。

    陈果的四姨崔莉:从小陈果就是全家每个人的掌上明珠,她是全家人的骄傲和希望,把希望都寄托在她的身上。可以说她上学的时候,尤其是我妈妈退休金又不高,老太太心劲儿也大,一个月200多块。都一心想着,不管咋样,再难,也得把陈果培养出来。

    记者:全家都寄希望于她?

    崔莉:对。

    记者:如果按正常的情况来讲,陈果什么时候毕业?

    崔莉:2003年,大学毕业了。

    记者:明年就毕业了?

    崔莉:对。

    记者采访陈果的母亲。

    记者:当初这样做,是为了什么呢?

    郝惠君:是迷信,就是迷信。

    记者:就是迷信。

    郝惠君:就是迷信“法轮功”。

    记者:你有没有想到这样做了以后,自己会是现在这样一个状况?

    郝惠君:我就是没有想到,你别再提这件事了,我不愿意再提它了。

    往事不堪回首,她们把希望寄托在未来。

    陈果:我感觉会越来越好,不会越来越差,比现在会好,应该是这样,应该是。

    比起郝惠君和陈果,自焚事件的参与者刘葆荣就幸运多了。她目前已经回家,和亲人团聚。

    记者采访天安门自焚事件参与者刘葆荣:非常幸运,非常幸运,还不是一般的幸运。这七个人里面,就属我最幸运了,我最幸运。我又平安回来,你看多好,家人对我可好,你们也对我们这么好。真的。

    记者:当时如果要是没有被及时制止住?

    刘葆荣:那肯定不堪设想,我可能就烧死了,绝对的。我第一个喝汽油,喝了以后,里外一烧,那就烧死了,绝对的。命都保不住了。

    记者:你平时做什么呢?

    刘葆荣:我就看看书,看看诗。我喜欢唐诗、宋词,我这儿都有。我原来喜欢这些东西。

    记者:她自己还作了两首诗呢。

    刘葆荣:走过去的路,我也不想再回头看,我就想往前看。我想过正常人的生活,就是这样。

    和家人一起平静地过好今后的日子,是刘葆荣最大的愿望。

    一年前,参加天安门自焚事件的七个人,他们的经历,在这一年中真是大不相同。在这个事件中,起组织、策划、煽动作用的王进东、刘云芳,目前都正在监狱服刑。

    刘云芳是天安门自焚事件的主要组织者。一年后,他依然对法轮功邪教组织痴迷不悟。

    记者采访天安门自焚事件参与者刘云芳:我上天安门广场自焚,就是用我的身体来向人们说明真相。“大法”是真的。

    记者:这种形式对你的修炼是一种什么样的帮助呢?

    刘云芳:这个“大法”到了一定的时候了,那些功友真修,假修,必须得经过一个层次来考验。把什么执着心都去掉,包括你的生命,把什么生命都去掉。

    尽管刘云芳痴迷邪教,号称要放下生命。但是他在天安门自焚事件中,并没有将自己点着。

    在现场,第一个将自己点着的,是王进东。记者第一次采访王进东,是在自焚事件发生的第四天。

    记者在2001年1月26日采访王进东。

    记者:想不想家人啊?

    王进东:都不想。

    在这之后,记者曾多次采访过他,最后一次是去年7月,开庭审判期间。

    记者:在你心目当中,你们的师父是什么样的地位呢?

    王进东:他是宇宙的主佛。到时,我深信师父定会还我一张,本来应该属于我王进东的真正的面目和真身。

    当时,他对李洪志的歪理邪说仍然坚信不一。

    (资料)李洪志说:在常人来说,情是天经地义的,可是作为一个修炼的人,我们是做最高层次的人。要突破这个东西,所以有很多很多从情中派生出来的执着心,就得把它逐渐放淡,最后直到把它能够完全放下。

    李洪志要求,练法轮功的人必须断绝一切亲情,从而完全听命于他。

    记者采访天安门自焚事件参与者王进东:我现在在修炼中,一切的痛苦和承受,对我都不算什么。但是就这个情缠绕我,舍不掉,我现在就这方面不好。

    半年之后,记者再见到王进东时,发现他已经有了变化。

    记者在2002年1月王进东。

    记者:上次见面是七月份,我们是最后一次见面。那时候手好象还不太能动吧?

    王进东:那手当时是这个样子。

    记者:现在我看,能握住我的手吗?现在已经能这样握住了。原来都没法握手。

    1月8日,是王进东的生日。这一天,他的妻子和女儿特意来看他。她们原来曾经也痴迷法轮功,现在已经完全摆脱了法轮功的精神控制。

    记者:当初你们准备到天安门广场自焚的时候,当时心里是怎么想的呢?

    王进东:当时,就是说在师父的经文,就是说过去师父经文一个劲地下,都是让走出去。从长春讲法,一直到最后《去掉最后的执着》,后来一直从网上下的经文,都是让走出去。因为什么?因为自己在这个圈子里迷,痴迷着,一直所有的思维,人的正常思维没有了。所以在里面,被他的思想所控制着。

    记者:你觉得他为什么能做到让一个人没有了正常的思维呢?

    王进东:因为他在他所下的经文里面,都是圆满了……其实他要你放下人的执着,还是勾起你一个最大的执着,就是圆满了。

    记者采访王进东的女儿王娟:勾起你比常人得到更好的东西,在人间你得不到的东西,修炼能得到。所以自己就全部身心投入到修炼中去,尽自己最大的能力、努力,去放弃人间的一切东西。

    记者:目的是什么呢?

    王娟:目的是得到另外空间的东西,和常人得不到的东西。

    王进东:其实是隐藏很深的一种自私。其实回想起来,这个自私就是打着一个漂亮的幌子。

    王娟:当时我的日语老师,一知道我修“法轮功”,就告诉我,你修炼本身就是执着,就是自私的。

    记者:当时并不相信?

    王娟:我根本就不相信,而且非常地轻视这些话。

    王进东:王娟的一个日语教师,对王娟挺好的。李洪志的书,他都买了很多,他为了研究。他说王师傅,你看这书我都有,我看了。他说李洪志纯粹是个大骗子,他说从他的语言结构,从他的语法,从各方面,都根本不规范。他很多名词都是剽窃了佛、道两家的词汇。他说最后主要是敛财。他说世界的邪教组织都是这样发展起来的,他说你早晚一天,你们会后悔的。到了最后,一再交代,千万注意不要自杀和杀人。当时我觉得很可笑,我说我清清亮亮的人,我怎么会自杀呢。杀人,我更不会。我要做一个好人,怎么会杀人呢。

    记者:那是什么时候的事?

    王进东:1998年上半年。结果由此,现在想出来,王娟的日语教师,才是一个真正的智者。所以说当初听他的话,那就好了,现在后悔莫及。

    记者:原来那么坚信这些东西,甚至肯为它付出生命。现在反过来,放弃了,我觉得应该是很痛苦的。

    王进东:对,这样的痛苦比皮肉之苦更加苦,确实是剜心透骨。主要的,还是傅怡彬这个惨案发生以后,对我震动很大。因为什么?因为自己固守的东西,因为自己很执着的东西,认为是无比美好的东西,到头来是什么呢?到头来,那不就是杀人,自杀和杀人。

    自杀和杀人,并不是王进东本人当初修炼法轮功的愿望。当时法轮功这个邪教组织,以做好人为名,以圆满为诱饵,使他们最终走上了自杀和杀人的路。

    王进东:我主要我心里的苦,就是已经死去的两个人,还有现在正在住院的两个人。我每当想起她们的时候,我就暗暗地掉泪,不管在什么场合下,想到她们的时候,我都掉泪,我都很内疚,很自责。

    记者:现在看中国政府取缔“法轮功”,你怎么看呢?

    王进东:当然,这是一个很英明的决断。如果任其下去,可能类似我的事件,类似傅怡彬的这种事件,发生得会更多。

    王进东准备将自己的经历写下来,使更多的人认识到法轮功邪教组织对人心灵的摧残,和对生命的伤害。

    主持人:一年前发生在天安门广场的自焚事件,完全是在李洪志,及其邪教法轮功组织的精神控制和蛊惑下发生的。对于每一个自焚事件的参与者,对于他们的家人,对社会,这都无疑是场悲剧。而这个悲剧的发生,也给全世界都敲响了警钟,一定要高度重视和警惕法轮功这样的邪教组织,清除邪教对社会的危害,使这种人间的悲剧不再重演。而这个事件也告诉人们,邪教不除,社会就不能得到安宁。 

Tragedy not to occur again

Follow-up Report by "Focus Interview" on CCTV About Tian'anmen Square Self-immolation Incident (I)

Anchor: The Tian'anmen Square self-immolation incident plotted by the cult organization Falun Gong one year ago astonished the whole world. Falun Gong's cult feature of mind-manipulation and homicide has been fully exposed ever since then. What are the situations of the people involved in this incident after a year? Our reporter interviewed them once again.

There were seven people who went to the Tian'anmen Square for self-immolation, named Wang Jindong, Liu Yunfang, Liu Baorong, Hao Huijun, Chen Guo, Liu Chunling and Liu Siying, of whom the latter four are two mother-daughter pairs respectively. Liu Chunling died on the spot and her daughter Liu Siying also lost her life for the pathological changes from burn at the age of 12 after unsuccessful emergency treatment. Wang Jindong, Hao Huijun and Chen Guo were severely burned. Liu Yunfang and Liu Baorong were stopped before they could set fire on themselves. This incident caused two people to death and three to severe burn.

Beijing No. 1 Intermediate People's Procuratorate prosecuted before Beijing No. 1 Intermediate People's Court the people who had organized, plotted, instigated and helped these Falun Gong followers to immolate themselves on May 30, 2001. The court heard the case on July 19 and found Liu Yunfang, Wang Jindong and Xue Huijun guilty. Liu Baorong, who played a much lesser role, was exempted from criminal punishment.

Hao Huijun and her daughter Chen Guo have survived from the serious burn thanks to the timely emergency treatment and they are now still in hospital for rehabilitation. Cui Li, Chen Guo's aunt, happened to come to visit them when our reporter arrived at the hospital.

The reporter saw Chen Guo, a student of Central Conservatory of Music.
 
Chen Guo: Aunt, nice to see you.

Cui Li: Nice to see you.

The reporter noted that Cui Li had brought a few of books to Chen Guo.

Reporter: Chen Guo, do you like these books?

Chen Guo: Yes, I do.

Reporter: Are you able to read them?

Chen Guo: Yes, but I can't read for a long time because my eyes will feel tired.
 
Reporter: How long can you read each time?

Chen Guo: No more than ten minutes.

Now, Hao Huijun and Chen Guo have lost ability of daily life and need 24-hour care.

Reporter: What do you do everyday?

Chen Guo: The chief nurse does physical therapy for me every day in order to soften the scars on the knee joints. Then the accompany will go out for a walk, watch TV or read newspapers with us.

The reporter interviewed Cui Wei, their nurse.

Cui Wei: Their situation is stabilized on the whole and currently the treatment is focused on the wounds. We hope the wounds will recover as soon as possible through dressing changes for them. And another focus is to recover the functions of joints.

The situation of Hao Huijun is worse than that of Chen Guo. One of her eyes is completely blind.

Reporter: What does Chen Guo look like in your memory?

Hao Huijun: She is very beautiful, very beautiful.

Her daughter is still very beautiful in the mother's memory.

Reporter: Can you see your Mum?

Chen Guo: Yes, I can. This eye is OK.

Reporter: Only this eye?

Chen Guo: hum.

Reporter: Do you feel painful when seeing your Mum in such a condition?

Chen Guo: I've got used to it. You have to change and can't remain as before after the burning. You can get used to it gradually.

Reporter: So you are used to it?

Chen Guo: I think she really looks like a big puppet.

Reporter: Like what?

Chen Guo: Big puppet.

Reporter: Like the one in your cartoon?

Chen Guo: Right. So I call her "Big Puppet".

Reporter: You call your Mum "Big Puppet"?

Chen Guo: Hum.

Reporter: Does she answer you?

Chen Guo: Yes.

Reporter: Your Mum even answers. What does she call you?

Chen Guo: I call her "Big Puppet", so she calls me "Little Puppet".

Cui Li's heart was full of sorrow as soon as she left her relatives, though she was always smiling in front of them.

Chen Guo' aunt Cui Li: Chen Guo has been the apple of our eye since she was a child. She has been the pride and entire hope of the whole family. Especially my mother has tried her best to give her a good education no matter how difficult it might be, though she is a retired old woman with a low pension of over 200 Yuan a month.

Reporter: Is she the hope of the whole family?

Cui Li: Right.

Reporter: When would Chen Guo graduate as scheduled?

Cui Li: She would graduate from university in 2003.

Reporter: You mean next year?

Cui Li: Yes.

The reporter interviewed Chen Guo's mother.

Reporter: Why did you do that at that time?

Hao Huijun: Blind faith, it's just because of blind faith.

Reporter: It's just because of blind faith.

Hao Huijun: Yes, it's just because of blind faith in Falun Gong.

Reporter: Did you ever think of such a result when you did that?

Hao Huijun: I never thought of this. Please don't mention it again. I don't want to talk about it any more.

They pin their hope on the future because it's so hard to recall the past time.

Chen Guo: I feel things will be better and better rather than worse and worse. Our future will be better than today. It should be that. It should be.

Liu Baorong, another self-immolation participant, is much luckier than Hao Huijun and Chen Guo. She has returned home and now stays with her family.

The reporter interviewed Liu Baorong, a survivor of Tian'anmen Square self-immolation participators.

Liu Baorong: I'm very very lucky,uncommonly lucky. I'm the luckiest among the seven. I'm the luckiest. I've come back, you see, it's so good. My family is so good to me, and all of you are so good to me. It's true.

Reporter: What would have happened if you had not been stopped in time?

Liu Baorong: I can't imagine. I would have been burned to death. Absolutely. I was the first to drink gas. I must have been burned to death with gas inside my body. Absolutely. I would have lost my life.

Reporter: What do you do in your daily life?

Liu Baorong: I read books and poems. I like poems in Tang and Song Dynasties and have got the books. I used to like this kind of things.

Reporter: She even wrote two poems by herself.

Liu Baorong: I don't want to look back the past. I just want to look forward and lead a normal life. That's all.

The biggest wish of Liu Baorong is to live calmly with her family.

During the year ever since, the experiences differentiated largely among the seven people who were involved in the Tian'anmen Square self-immolation incident. Wang Jindong and Liu Yunfang who organized, plotted and instigated this tragedy are now serving their sentences in jail.

Liu Yunfang was the main organizer of the incident. He still believed in the cult organization Falun Gong stubbornly one year later.

The reporter interviewed Liu Yunfang, one of the participants in the Tian'anmen Square self-immolation incident.

Liu Yunfang: I went to Tian'anmen Square for self-immolation only to tell people the truth with my body. "Falun Dafa" is true.

Reporter: What kind of help can this approach give to your cultivation?

Liu Yunfang: When "Falun Dafa" comes to a certain time, there must be a level to test who is cultivating sincerely and who is not. You have to wear down your "attachment", including your life, all of your life.

Liu didn't set himself on fire in the Tian'anmen Square self-immolation incident though he is obsessed in the cult and claimed to wear down his life.

Wang Jindong was the first one who set himself on fire on the spot. On the fourth day after the incident, the reporter interviewed him.

The reporter interviewed Wang on January 26, 2001.

Reporter: Do you miss you relatives?

Wang Jindong: No, none of them.

Since then, the reporter had interviewed him several times. The last time occurred in July last year, during the open trial period.

Reporter: What a position does your master have in your heart?

Wang Jindong: He is the main Buddha in the universe. I believe my master will return me a true appearance and body that should have belonged to me when the proper time comes.

At that time, he was still strongly convinced of Li Hongzhi's fallacies.

(Document) Li Hongzhi said, "normal people take affection for granted. But as cultivators, we should be the ones at the highest level. In order to break through such things, we should belittle a lot of attachments that have derived from affection and eventually wear them down completely."

Li Hongzhi requests the Falun Gong practitioners break off all their kinships and obey his order absolutely.

The reporter interviewed Wang Jindong, one of the participants in the Tian'anmen Square self-immolation incident.

Wang Jindong: I'm in my cultivation. Whatever pains and sufferings mean nothing to me. However, the affection does trouble me and they are difficult to give up. Now I'm not doing well at this aspect.

Half a year later, the reporter met Wanng Jindong again to find that he had made a change.

The reporter met him in January, 2002.

Reporter: it is in July that we met last time. Your hands were not easy to move at that time, were they?

Wang Jindong: My hands were like that at that time.

Reporter: Let me have a look. Can you grasp my hand? Yes, you can now. Last time we couldn't even shake hands.

It was Wang Jindong's birthday on January 8. On this special day, his wife and daughter came to see him. Both of them were once obsessed in Falun Gong and now they have totally broken away from the mental manipulation by this cult.

Reporter: What was in your mind when you planed to go to the Tian'anmen Square for self-immolation?

Wang Jindong: At that time, our master continually gave lections to go out. From his lectures in Changchun City and his book "Wear down the Last Attachment" to the lections downloaded from the Internet, all ordered us to go out. Why? Because we are obsessed in the circle. We are obsessed, without any thinking all the time, without normal thinking of human being. So our minds are manipulated in this circle.

Reporter: In your opinion, how can he manage to get rid of someone's normal thinking?

Wang Jindong: Because all of his lections are full of consummation… In fact, he wants you to wear down your attachment, while triggering a biggest attachment in your heart, that is, consummation.

The reporter interviewed Wang Juan, Wang Jindong's daughter.

Wang Juan: He lures you to get better things ordinary people can't get. You can get things you couldn't get in the world through cultivation. So you devote your body and soul to cultivation and try your best to give up everything in the world.

Reporter: Then what's the purpose?

Wang Juan: The purpose is to get something in another world and something that ordinary people can't get.

Wang Jindong: In fact, it's a kind of selfishness hidden deeply. Actually, I now realize that this selfishness is in the guise of a beautiful mask.

Wang Juan: At that time, my Japanese language teacher, while knowing I was practicing Falun Gong, told me that cultivation itself was attachment and selfishness.

Reporter: You didn't believe at that time, right?

Wang Juan: I didn't believe him at all, and I even looked down on them.

Wang Jindong: Wang Juan's Japanese language teacher is very good to Wang Juan. He has bought a lot of books written by Li Hongzhi for the sake of study. He said, "Lao Wang, you see, I've read all these books." He told me Li Hongzhi was a big liar. His language structures, his grammar, every aspects of his language are not normative at all. A lot of his terms are pirated from Buddhism and Taoism. He said his eventual purpose was to accumulate money and a lot of cult organizations around the world have thus developed. He told me we would regret sooner or later. At last he asked me again and again not to make suicide or kill other people. At that time, I thought it was nonsense. How would a clear man like me to commit suicide, let alone killing other people? I want to be a good man. How could I kill any one?

Reporter: When did that happen?

Wang Jindong: In the first half of 1998. But the result was this. Now I know that, Wang Juan's Japanese language teacher is really wise. Things wouldn't have become like this if I had followed his words. But it's too late.

Reporter: You believed these things so firmly in the past, even willing to sacrifice your life. I think you were feeling painful to give it up.

Wang Jindong: Yes. This kind of suffering was more than physical pain. It reaches to the heart and bone. Most important, it is the tragedy made by Fu yibin that shocked me. Why? What I adhered to, what I attached to, what I regarded as incomparably nice, where do they go in the end? That is just killing, killing oneself and killing others.

Suicide and homicide were not wishes of Wang Jindong when he began to practice Falun Gong. At that time Falun Gong, a cult organization, in the guise of karmic retribution and using consummation as bait, forced them on a road of suicide and homicide.

Wang Jindong: What make me suffer most in the heart is the two people who died and the two people who are now in hospital. I cry whenever I think of them. No matter on what occasion, tears come down whenever I think of them. My conscience is so stricken and I always blame myself.

Reporter: Now, how do you think that Falun Gong has been announced illegal by the Chinese Government?

Wang Jindong: Surely it's a correct decision. If things are allowed to go without control, perhaps a great many of tragedies like Fu Yibin and me would happen again.

Wang Jindong plans to write down his story so that more people can recognize how Falun Gong destroys people's mind and takes away people's life.

Anchor: The Tian'anmen Square self-immolation incident taking place one year ago was absolutely due to the mind manipulation and bewitchery by Li Hongzhi and his cult organization Falun Gong. It's no doubt a tragedy for the people who have been involved in the self-immolation incident, for their family and for the whole society. The tragedy has sounded the alarm that we must pay much attention to and keep on the alert of the cult organizations and eliminate their harms, so that such kind of tragedies will never occur again. This incident tells us that we can never have a peaceful society if we don't eradicate the cult organizations.

(CCTV, Janaury 19, 2005)

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